As part of its response to the ongoing crisis in Afghanistan, the Foundation gives the floor to Fahimeh Robiolle, a French Iranian professor teaching at the ESSEC Business School as well as at the universities of Kabul and Tehran, and vice-President of the France-Afghanistan Club. She is a specialist in negotiation, conflict management, leadership, and team building, providing training at leading institutions in France such as ENA (École nationale d'administration). Her experience includes contributions to the “Negotiators of the World” project in the Democratic Republic of Congo and Burkina Faso. She conducts seminars in Persian in Iran, targeting both decision-makers and University of Tehran students, and organizes leadership development programs for Afghan women parliamentarians and peace council members.
Witnessing the situation deteriorate in Afghanistan since May 2021, Fahimeh organized, from France, the exfiltration of several Afghan women following the Taliban’s capture of Kabul on August 15, 2021. She continues today to do everything in her power to evacuate other women with whom she remains in contact, who are living in hiding in the country because they are under threat. Threatened simply because they want to study, to work, to think for themselves, to make their own decisions, to have rights: to be emancipated. An encounter with an inspiring woman, courageous and determined to fight at all costs for Afghan women and their rights.
How are you feeling? What state of mind are you in, and has it changed since the beginning of this crisis?
First of all, thank you. I teach in France and also at the University of Kabul. Since 2009, I have been designing and leading programs for Afghan women leaders in the fields of negotiation, conflict management, and leadership. All these years of travel and work in Afghanistan have enabled me to build and be part of a strong network of Afghan women leaders, including some who took part in the negotiation table in Doha. It was through this network that people reached out to me for help to be evacuated from Afghanistan.
For the past three months, all indicators had shown that the situation in Afghanistan was deteriorating day by day. Targeted assassinations had multiplied, and the Taliban were attacking in various regions across the country. I therefore contacted the French authorities to prepare files and submit evacuation requests. The number of vulnerable individuals seeking my help grew as the situation worsened. More and more Afghans fled their home regions and had arrived in Kabul before the Taliban’s takeover—displaced populations who had endured great suffering, with children and even infants in alarming health conditions.
Among all the vulnerable Afghans who contacted me, about twenty people were evacuated by France, but many others remain in the country, including an interpreter for the French army who is being actively sought by the Taliban and is still there. There are also women who were members of the government and have been asked by the Taliban to return to work—a way of showcasing women to international public opinion by saying, “You see: women are willing to work with us.” These women, like several others now being hunted by the Taliban, remain in hiding, and we have been trying for several weeks to get them out.
What is the current situation in Afghanistan?
The situation is appalling for everyone there, and even more so for those who are under threat. The country is reverting to the same barbaric practices it experienced before 2001: corporal punishments carried out in the streets, public beatings, and an increasingly restricted and repressed presence of women in society. Videos and photographs of women demonstrating in the streets of Herat, Mazar-e-Sharif, Kabul, and Ghazni bear witness to this reality.
How many women have contacted you in an attempt to leave Afghanistan?
It is impossible for me to give you a precise number; I cannot count the number of people who call me or send messages of distress. One of the families who was at the airport gave my phone number to those standing nearby, whether or not they had documents, whether or not they were on a priority evacuation list. I assume these people then passed my number on to others, and so on. I receive calls from people saying: “We don’t know you, but we heard you are very kind and that you can help us; please help us.” Individuals with dual nationality, holding a French passport or French residence permit, who are blocked there with their families, also reach out to me: “If the French government says it is aware of these cases, why does it leave them in such anguish that they turn to people like me?” I am not the only one facing such distress calls.
What is the difference between the statements made by Taliban spokespersons in the media and the measures actually implemented by the Taliban in Afghanistan? What are the reports and testimonies you receive from your contacts on the ground?
The Taliban spokesperson serves as a marketing tool toward the international community to say, “Look, we have changed.”
In reality, they have not changed at all. In fact, they have become worse and more bloodthirsty, because they have acquired new tools and subtler tactics to be more violent than they were 20 years ago. Worst of all, the Taliban and a flood of other terrorists from Afghanistan, Pakistan, and elsewhere have gathered together. It is known that, when madrassas in Pakistan closed at the end of the school year, “students” were told: “Go wage jihad, and there are wonderful women [girls] there who can be taken as spoils of war.”
Even before the capture of Kabul, the Taliban had already perpetrated forced marriages, organized sexual slavery, and committed other atrocities in Afghan districts under their control. In Herat, for example, they announced in mosques that all families with daughters must declare them so that they could marry Taliban fighters, and that neighbors must report such families. There are testimonies stating that girls aged nine or ten were forcibly married and then taken away by fighters in front of their parents.
As for the Taliban government: what can be expected from people who were mostly educated in madrassas in Pakistan and who have known nothing but dust, war, and terrorism? The new head of Afghanistan’s central bank is a mullah who has not even completed primary school, clear proof that they have no one qualified to govern. A country that has had universities, banks, governmental structures, a constitution, and schools for the past 20 years: how can all this be managed by an illiterate and bloodthirsty group? They do not know how, and they cannot do it.
Could you tell us about the demonstrations led by women activists? Did they have any impact?
The first thing the Taliban said upon seizing power was: “Women, stay at home.” The reason was simple: the Taliban do not know how to behave with women, they admitted it themselves. These are fighters, many of them young, who have never seen women in public. To avoid incidents, the Taliban ordered women to remain in their homes.
In Herat, Kandahar, and before the fall of Kabul, we received testimonies from female professors who went to the gates of universities but were prevented from entering by the Taliban and sent home, because they did not want women teachers. The same applied to other professions. Women then took to the streets to say, “We want to work!” because most of them are the breadwinners for their families. Over the past 20 years, women, compared to men, have demonstrated unmatched determination and persistence in their work. As a result, before the Taliban’s return, many Afghan women held responsible positions as civil servants, executives, or entrepreneurs. The central demand of these demonstrations was thus the right to work, which has not yet been reinstated, along with access to education and participation in public life.
The only measure taken for women – and one that was widely publicized – is that they may continue to attend university, but under strict conditions. A curtain now separates women from men; the professor must remain on the men’s side; of course, girls must be fully covered, leave class a few minutes before the boys to avoid any interaction or even being seen. Now, the Taliban say they want separate classes for girls and boys, yet they lack enough teachers to make it possible, which gives a clear idea of what the future holds. This week, the Taliban decided to reopen classes for boys up to the baccalaureate level, but for girls only at the primary school level.
In every aspect, the situation of women is catastrophic. Among those I managed to help evacuate is a high-ranking Afghan woman officer who had the extraordinary luck of leaving her home just minutes before the Taliban arrived, seized her car and weapons… they are still searching for her.
And this woman, is she safe now?
Yes, she is in France. Most of her family members, including women who are even more at risk, are still there, hiding and being hunted by the Taliban.
In your view, what is the responsibility of the international community?
There is a major – if not total – responsibility on the part of the international community, and especially of the Americans, for the failure and chaos now evident in Afghanistan. I have been observing this closely for years and discussing it with women leaders. Ten years ago already, it was clear that things were going wrong.
We had all these indicators before us.
For example, the SIGAR (Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction) was created to monitor and assess American reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan. Its reports were later submitted to the U.S. Congress or Senate. Yet, reading those audits, it is clear that many things were not working: funds were spent with no transparent record of how they were used. This lack of rigor and accountability exacerbated pre-existing corruption, multiplying it exponentially. One of SIGAR’s latest reports was aptly titled “The risk of doing perfectly the wrong thing.”
Furthermore, we know that 80% of the Afghan population lives in rural areas and has benefited little, if at all, from this financial windfall. The Taliban exploited this corruption to impose their rule precisely in these regions, because government justice in remote areas either did not exist or was corrupt, granting justice to whoever could pay a bribe. In certain Taliban-controlled provinces, they would arbitrate disputes under threat, forcing people to comply with their rulings.
We also know that for several years, in regions under Taliban influence, girls’ schools have been closed or converted into madrassas for boys. Corruption permeated the entire system, and the absence of genuine governance enabled the Taliban to thrive.
As for the military failure, President Biden has said he does not understand why the Afghan army collapsed so quickly under Taliban attacks. But one must understand that the Afghan army was created by the Americans on the same model as the U.S. military. It was equipped with high-tech systems designed and maintained by 16,000 American contractors. When the United States decided to withdraw, these contractors were evacuated. The Afghan army thus found itself with few or no operational tools, lacking aerial support, surveillance, and information systems. Added to this were the corruption at the top, soldiers unpaid for months, families hungry or ill, and orders from commanders to make “tactical retreats” when facing the Taliban. All these factors combined have led us to where we are today. One could talk for days about everything that went wrong.
We have one last question before concluding this interview: what are your hopes for Afghan women today, once the media attention fades away? Are there still any levers of action to guarantee their rights?
At this stage, it is very difficult to have any visibility. I fear that, in the name of humanitarian aid, the same mistakes will be repeated and that we will give in to the Taliban. Democracy, women’s rights, and more broadly human rights: all of these will be completely forgotten once the spotlight is no longer on Afghanistan.
It should not be forgotten that they were only around one hundred thousand imposing their Islamic Emirate on a country of thirty-eight million. What is terrible to say, yet brutally true, is that women will be used by the Taliban to reproduce themselves, and they will likely rush to do so. It is, for them, an urgent priority. What will the daily life of all these women be like, especially?
The Taliban will need the outside world. The levers currently being mentioned to exert pressure on this regime correspond precisely to meeting these external needs, which should be made conditional upon respect for women’s rights, among others. Yet when we observe what is already happening now, while the country is still “visible,” what will happen once control over the information that emerges becomes complete?
Europe must coordinate around a single, unified message. No country should act on its own. This was precisely what happened in Afghanistan for twenty years where each nation had its own strategy and convictions.
There can be no hope of achieving anything constructive for Afghanistan, particularly concerning girls and women, without a united and coordinated Europe.
